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Deilann
Death_By_Powerpoint
How do you kill something that's already dead? I mean, I thought public school is pretty much dead already sweatdrop Anything would be an improvement from this point, wouldn't it?


Vouchers make the public schools crappier and the private schools richer. So it wouldn't be an improvement. stare
That's the whole point of Vouchers. You can then take your voucher to a private school and attend there. Don't stick behind at the crappy schools, follow the crowd to the good ones.

The whole point is to allow people to choose good schools. Then the schools are forced to either be better, or be bankrupt. That's the way it should work in this society, folks. The best one wins, always.

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Formic
That's the whole point of Vouchers. You can then take your voucher to a private school and attend there. Don't stick behind at the crappy schools, follow the crowd to the good ones.

The whole point is to allow people to choose good schools. Then the schools are forced to either be better, or be bankrupt. That's the way it should work in this society, folks. The best one wins, always.


I fail to see your point. Why sweep the problem of bad schools under the rug and start working on improving the bad schools and make them better?

The public school system and both private are not fast food establishments. They are educational institutions of where you obtain knowledge.

Your way of thought is again the line of "supply side economics" of which is ruining this nation of opportunity. Poor people cannot afford private schools. They are too expensive.

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TheTick900
Formic
That's the whole point of Vouchers. You can then take your voucher to a private school and attend there. Don't stick behind at the crappy schools, follow the crowd to the good ones.

The whole point is to allow people to choose good schools. Then the schools are forced to either be better, or be bankrupt. That's the way it should work in this society, folks. The best one wins, always.


I fail to see your point. Why sweep the problem of bad schools under the rug and start working on improving the bad schools and make them better?

The public school system and both private are not fast food establishments. They are educational institutions of where you obtain knowledge.

Your way of thought is again the line of "supply side economics" of which is ruining this nation of opportunity. Poor people cannot afford private schools. They are too expensive.


And if a combination of vouchers for the poor, and removal of public school systems, that problem would be removed.. Cheaper private schools would fill that market! This would cost much less, given that not everyone would have to recieve vouchers to educate their children, and it is likely quality of education would go up. This isn't sweeping a problem under a rug, it is the removal of the problem itself.

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I thought the whole point of vouchers was to give the children in crappy schools some way to get out. How fair is it to stick some poor kid in some violence-ridden school and not allow them to escape to go somewhere better?

I don't like the "greater good" idea that if we keep public schools the way they are, that they'll somehow magically get better. They have no real competition, because most can't afford private schools. With vouchers, there will be some competition and that will force the public schools to improve.

I sure don't want my kids going to public schools. I have attended public and private, and I have taught in public and private. (yeah, I'm old)

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Salyx_Babylonica
I thought the whole point of vouchers was to give the children in crappy schools some way to get out. How fair is it to stick some poor kid in some violence-ridden school and not allow them to escape to go somewhere better?

I don't like the "greater good" idea that if we keep public schools the way they are, that they'll somehow magically get better. They have no real competition, because most can't afford private schools. With vouchers, there will be some competition and that will force the public schools to improve.

I sure don't want my kids going to public schools. I have attended public and private, and I have taught in public and private. (yeah, I'm old)
School vouchers are not given to all students. Therefore some children are still stuck in that violence-ridden school, which is now failing as it loses students and money, while others can perhaps go to a private school, if the voucher even covers the cost. School vouchers are not the answer. They act as saviour to a few, leaving the rest behind in what quickly becomes a decreasingly worse school. Schools cannot improve unless they have the funds, making the competition point moot when applied to many schools. Why not, instead of basically abandoning the public school system, why not take the money from school vouchers and No Child Left Behind [which isn't working] and give it to those failing public schools that haven't even the money to provide a text for every student?

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I have changed my mind. I've learned more about the subject, and have a different opinion.

Formic
limbodog
And can be brainwashed by catholics instead?

Are you even aware YOU are a part of the government?

<sigh>

Vouchers are a way for rich people to insure their rich kids don't have to attend school with the poor folks while funneling money to christian organizations.


I just want to be able to choose who I am brainwashed by, is all. I would rather be brainwashed by certain people than others.

What's the big deal with vouchers? The Good schools get the money, the crappy schools are done away with.


In the past, the gov't had no way to get at private schools. But when private schools accept gov't money, they can force their will on them. And there are lots of private school that need money. An example would be no more creationism, private schools would have to teach evolution. So in the end, you will be brainwashed by the same people.

Formic
That's the whole point of Vouchers. You can then take your voucher to a private school and attend there. Don't stick behind at the crappy schools, follow the crowd to the good ones.

The whole point is to allow people to choose good schools. Then the schools are forced to either be better, or be bankrupt. That's the way it should work in this society, folks. The best one wins, always.


This is going make some public schools out of business, and more private schools that get money from the gov't, which turns those private schools into public schools. Therefore a big reduction in the number of private schools, and the gov't controls more schools out there.

Salyx_Babylonica
I thought the whole point of vouchers was to give the children in crappy schools some way to get out. How fair is it to stick some poor kid in some violence-ridden school and not allow them to escape to go somewhere better?

I don't like the "greater good" idea that if we keep public schools the way they are, that they'll somehow magically get better. They have no real competition, because most can't afford private schools. With vouchers, there will be some competition and that will force the public schools to improve.

I sure don't want my kids going to public schools. I have attended public and private, and I have taught in public and private. (yeah, I'm old)


In the future, you will be sending your kids to public schools, because there will only private schools will be ones way outside your price range that haven't been touched by the gov't, or private schools that are basically the same as public schools because of all the gov't interference.

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I don't know much about vouchers, but I heard that if you go to a failing public school, you can take the voucher to go to a private school for free or close to it... why can't the kids just go to a better public school? Why should some children that went to a public school get to go to a private school for free and the others have to pay?

I mean, my grandmother pays like 14,000 dollars a year for my sister and I go to a private school (5,000 tuition each and school books...and this is the cheapest private school in our area)and she also has other bills like doctor bills and things for my sister and I...most of this money she doesn't have and she has to work 2 jobs almost every single day... but then other kids can get into it without having to pay those bills? Someone, tell me I was misinformed... Because if not, something is seriously messed up.

I understand that some families are really poor, but just go to another public school that ISN'T failing... Not a private one that others actually have to pay for...

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khryselise
I don't know much about vouchers, but I heard that if you go to a failing public school, you can take the voucher to go to a private school for free or close to it... why can't the kids just go to a better public school? Why should some children that went to a public school get to go to a private school for free and the others have to pay?

I mean, my grandmother pays like 14,000 dollars a year for my sister and I go to a private school (5,000 tuition each and school books...and this is the cheapest private school in our area)and she also has other bills like doctor bills and things for my sister and I...most of this money she doesn't have and she has to work 2 jobs almost every single day... but then other kids can get into it without having to pay those bills? Someone, tell me I was misinformed... Because if not, something is seriously messed up.

I understand that some families are really poor, but just go to another public school that ISN'T failing... Not a private one that others actually have to pay for...


I'm sorry to say this, but your statement is very ignorant. My sister actually goes to a public school that isn't her allotted school but that is very hard to do. You often have to go to special schools that take transfers or you have to be a minority. Also, many places don't allow tranferring in highschool.

Also, what do you do if all the public schools are bad in your area? I'm in Texas, and in many of the larger areas like Houston or Dallas, all of the schools that are in driving radius from the "poor neighbourhoods" are bad schools.

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Some people don't realize what the voucher system really means in this thread. For one thing--private schools don't WANT everyone's idiotic brat--that's why they're "better," because they don't have to accept every little s**t on the planet like a public school does. That's why private is "better". The teachers don't even have to have graduated college to teach at a private school--they just have students who have paid to be there and are gonna, you know, actually work. Parents who care. Work ethic. That sort of thing. Private schools don't want the rules of the public school system, where all children, even mentally handicapped children, must be allowed to go there. The voucher system will only help the kids who can already get into private school. If private schools take public money and have to accept all the same students that public schools do, their superiority will vanish and they'll effectively become public schools.

So, why should parents of kids in private school have to pay for public school funding through taxes? The same reason I will have to even though I won't have any kids. I better get a ******** check in the mail with my tax money in it for being childless if the voucher system is ever instilled. But that won't happen. Vouchers are a bad idea because it won't work. It is flawed and if anything--will just be a tax break to people who can afford to put their kids in private school.

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DangerSqueezit
Some people don't realize what the voucher system really means in this thread. For one thing--private schools don't WANT everyone's idiotic brat--that's why they're "better," because they don't have to accept every little s**t on the planet like a public school does. That's why private is "better". The teachers don't even have to have graduated college to teach at a private school--they just have students who have paid to be there and are gonna, you know, actually work. Parents who care. Work ethic. That sort of thing. Private schools don't want the rules of the public school system, where all children, even mentally handicapped children, must be allowed to go there. The voucher system will only help the kids who can already get into private school. If private schools take public money and have to accept all the same students that public schools do, their superiority will vanish and they'll effectively become public schools.

So, why should parents of kids in private school have to pay for public school funding through taxes? The same reason I will have to even though I won't have any kids. I better get a ******** check in the mail with my tax money in it for being childless if the voucher system is ever instilled. But that won't happen. Vouchers are a bad idea because it won't work. It is flawed and if anything--will just be a tax break to people who can afford to put their kids in private school.


You're right! It will only make private schools worse.

Public schools suck, private schools don't want to be brought down to the same level as them. The only way to fix the problem is get rid of all public schools.

Beloved Capitalist

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I say vouchers for all. Not because private schools are "good" or anything of that sort, but rather because the public schools I was stuck attending didn't give a rat's a** about education. They were day care centers for teenagers. That happened to have a (losing) football team. The only people who actually learned anything were people like me who spent our free time learning stuff unrelated to the "classes" they were trying to teach. (And no, I didn't get outstanding grades. You can only go through so much repetition and redundancy before you just don't give a s**t anymore). If I'd been able to attend a school where the teachers were teachers rather than referees, I would be considerably more knowledgeable than I am now.

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TheTick900
Formic
That's the whole point of Vouchers. You can then take your voucher to a private school and attend there. Don't stick behind at the crappy schools, follow the crowd to the good ones.

The whole point is to allow people to choose good schools. Then the schools are forced to either be better, or be bankrupt. That's the way it should work in this society, folks. The best one wins, always.


I fail to see your point. Why sweep the problem of bad schools under the rug and start working on improving the bad schools and make them better?

The public school system and both private are not fast food establishments. They are educational institutions of where you obtain knowledge.

Your way of thought is again the line of "supply side economics" of which is ruining this nation of opportunity. Poor people cannot afford private schools. They are too expensive.


Supply side economics are the reason most of the nation is experiencing recovery rather than recession. The demand for jobs exists. The responsible thing to do in response to this is to increase the supply side's ability to employ.

Similarly, the schools to supply the education will multiply, grow, and expand to fit the demand by parents and students for better schools, which thanks to present school-tax systems are not within the price range of the parents/students in most need of better schools. All vouchers do is make crappy schools lose students. Throwing money at the schools has failed miserably, so the only logical response to that sort of sinking ship is a lifeboat.

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dragon_slayer1
Public schools suck...


This has been asserted by you and others in this thread with little supporting argument.

This;

evilprivateer
I'm against public schools in general; private industry is better at managing schools and kids get better educations besides.


Was as close as someone got but still didn't provide any evidence or argument as to why private industry is "better at managing schools".

If you can't actually put forward an argument or something vaguely resembling an argument, then you do not belong in ED. Go to Chatterbox.

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Deilann
Death_By_Powerpoint
How do you kill something that's already dead? I mean, I thought public school is pretty much dead already sweatdrop Anything would be an improvement from this point, wouldn't it?


Vouchers make the public schools crappier and the private schools richer. So it wouldn't be an improvement. stare


There's always scrapping the public schooling system altogether. Private enterprises will fill the gap, that's what they do best. They look for wanted accomodations, and they provide them.

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The public school system is crap. We spend around 10k a student which adds up to about 350 billion a year. You would think with all the money spent we at least get top tier rankings in the world. Nope we're in the middle. The top countries are only spending 6k a child too.

There are two choices that need to be done. Either:

A) Make sweeping reforms on how teachers are paid. No more of this tenure and pay based on years spent working. The school system should be based on merit. The average teacher is overpaid and works 25% less than the average american. While on the oher hand, good teachers are wildly underpaid. For certain teachers we should be busting out the 100 grad checks. However, the way the current system works, it's better to not be extraordinary. It's also damn near impossible to fire a crappy teacher. In 2002 only 1 teacher was removed by the LA Board of Education. (April/May 04 policy Review)

B) Vouchers. If you create a market, there will be people who will try to fill that void. After which, competition would cause better schools to come up. Not just for regular people. Im sure there will be schools that speicalize in mentally retarded kids too. Private entrepreneurs will always try to fill niche markets.

Since there seems to different ways of doing vouchers I'll define what I would propose. Vouchers would goto everyone and you could redeem them at either any public or private school. It is a given that some people will not make it into the better private schools. But, the market will adjust to these cercumstances and new schools will allow the other students a chance for a better education.
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